PDA

View Full Version : Equal clothing rights


Ginger_Fi
07-09-2006, 11:58 AM
---Greetings all. It's nice to see a corner of the board set aside for the TG community. I have great hopes that this forum will succeed where others have failed... by keeping the conversations on the intellectual side, instead of the fetish side.
---I have been bogging for quite awhile and would like to post some of them for you all to read. I feel rather strongly about many of these topics, and am open for any feedback you might have on my topics.
---So without further ado, allow me to fire the first shot across the bow of our new forum.
===============================================
Discrimination against males?? You bet!


---Sexual discrimination has always been a hot topic. Through the years there have always news stories about sexual discrimination in the workplace, in sports, in the military, or anywhere that men and women compete on the same playing field. From women's involvement within the abolition movements, women became aware of the male dominance and oppression. From then on women struggled for equality. But doesn't one ask, don't we leave in an age of enlightenment? Is it not against the law to discriminate against someone due to their sex? Shouldn't there be one set of laws that apply to men and women both? The answers should be yes, but from a male’s point of view, that's not the case at all.
---We still live in the dark ages, where preconceived notions that have ruled our society for centuries, endure to this day. Oddly enough though, those notions only apply to men. Women's rights have undergone several large revolutions over the last few decades. What was expected of a woman 50 years ago is not at all what is expected of her today.
---On the other hand, men's rights haven't changed much at all. The gender roles for a woman have changed, but those for a man have not. A person's gender role is composed of several elements and can be expressed through clothing, behaviour, choice of work, personal relationships and other factors. Gender roles were traditionally divided into strictly feminine and masculine gender roles.
---I am going to point out how women get free passes by society, that men don't have the option to have. The topic?? Clothes...
---In most parts of the world it is still generally considered taboo for a man to wear clothes traditionally associated with women. Many people perceive this as hypocrisy and an imbalance in the equality of men and women in society and believe that men should not have to suffer discrimination for wanting to wear dresses or skirts. This issue is often labeled as "equal clothing rights," which has gained a significant movement around the world.
---At what point in modern society was it made proper for a woman to throw away the skirt, and start wearing pants? Although pants for women did not become fashion items until the later 20th century, women began wearing men's trousers for outdoor work a hundred years earlier. In the 1960s, André Courrèges introduced long trousers for women as a fashion item, leading to the era of the pantsuit and designer jeans and the gradual eroding of the prohibitions against girls and women wearing trousers in schools, the workplace, and fine restaurants. Many of the idioms of women's society were seen as a form of oppression that men had bestowed upon them. Remember for instance the bra burning rallies of the 60's? So out of the chains and shackles they came, into a new age of female enlightenment. No small part of this new age is the clothes they now have the right to wear.
---Women are allowed to wear clothes of both sexes without anyone even raising an eyebrow. Now it's common to see women in men's clothes. A woman might wear men's shirts, trousers, and underwear without anyone recognizing that she is cross-dressing, as very similar clothing items are produced for women. If a man tried to do the same thing, more than an eyebrow would be raised. The funny thing is, no one thinks about it, why is that? Why is it in our society that it is OK for women to portray a masculine image, but men are discouraged from displaying any sort of feminine qualities?
---As an example one of my managers walked by my work area the other day, and she was wearing a very male pant business suit, complete with tie. Was anyone giving her odd looks? Hardly! It was perfectly accepted by everyone around that she was allowed to wear that outfit, to work. Also I recently saw a Hanes men’s underwear commercial where the gist of the commercial was that the wife was laying around in his briefs and t-shirt, reminiscing of him while he was away.
---Now lets reverse those two situations. Say one of my male managers walked by my work area in a sharp women’s business suit complete with skirt and heels. Would he be getting odd looks? Most likely he would asked to leave the building, and maybe even wrote up. Or have you ever seen a Bali commercial where the husband was laying around in his wives bra and panties, dreaming about her while she was gone? Uh no, I don't think so. Can you imagine the outrage from the public if something like that ever showed?
---Now you tell me, what's the difference in those two scenarios? Just the gender of the person involved! Why is there a double standard? Why are women allowed to do things men aren't? Or if we do, we're looked at as a sexual deviant or pervert.
---It's time that men fight for their rights, fight for the choice of what clothes they would like to wear. What a wonderful concept.... Equal clothing rights. The very principle the US of A was founded on, but yet does not exist at its most basic components. I guess America is not quite as free as we all thought it to be.
---My personal goal is to bring manicured nails into the mainstream of male society. I have recently worn French tip nails out on normal town excursions. I have yet hear a negative comment from anyone that has noticed. I now plan on getting manicures done professionally and wearing my nails out loud and proud 24/7. Nothing to flamboyant to start with, but enough that people can notice.
--- It's not that hard guys, give me a hand and bring men new rights in the 21st century. Perhaps someday we can wear a wedding dress to our own wedding, and no one will be shocked. We all have goals to shoot for.

miarising
07-09-2006, 08:16 PM
Ginger,
feel free to put your ideas on here....

as for equal clothing rights, I understand how society develops and from a historical point of view it's obvious why we are the way we are in America..but the interesting part is that other societies who have a rough and tumble history like our own did NOT develop with these stereotypes. Using England as the example, their history is longer than ours, yet it contains a lot of turmoil, exploration, etc...the things that make up American history...and yet the tolerance there and in other European nations is ....much better than here.

always
mia

CathyB59
07-11-2006, 11:12 AM
Ginger,
I am def with you on clothing equality. What a thorough discourse, it covers valid observations and arguments pro clothing = ( personal ) equality.
Hope to speak to you soon!

BTW who set this up? Regardless,
THANK YOU for making an area for Gender enhanced people.

Ginger_Fi
07-12-2006, 10:41 AM
---I do agree on your point about we are a product of our environment. In Japan where Single-sex theatrical troupes often have some performers cross-dress in order to play roles written for members of the opposite sex is one place where it is not looked upon with such hate.
---Thailand with the "ladyboys" that are national heros second only to kick boxers is another. I understand it's the religions in those countries that lay a foundation for tolerence.
---In this country though, crossdressing is not taken as seriousally by those that practice it. Resulting in a comical and often humiliating appearence when they go in public. That is what causes much of the intolerence in Western society.
---If we want equality, then like the Japanese and Thai people, we need to "Do it right, or not do it at all."

CathyB59
07-12-2006, 11:23 AM
Miss Ginger!,
Your statement about doing it right rings true to me.
Example: certainly people have complimented you on your artistic skill, and beauty - How many people appreciate the effort and knowledge you've acquired along the way?
If you take the time and effort and practice to do something well, it shows.
Likewise when you don;t.
I don;t understand someone who expects to be viewed/treated femme
without practice and commitment.
Also - Bravo for you on your tips. I wear a short femme manicure at work without polish ( okay, sometimes I'll wear a coat of clear to strengthen them. I'm sure noone's noticed ;) )
It takes courage to be who you are - and NOT hide your beauty.
This is a passionate subject to me.
I would love to hear more of your perspective in this area.

miarising
07-12-2006, 05:18 PM
Cathy, I guess you could say I set it up...but it was suggested by Sparky to have it set up, because of the TG stuff we're working on for summer and fall diversity

Sparky
07-12-2006, 06:26 PM
Kathy it was Jamie who set it up after Jan, Kathy, Mia, Ginger.... all hinted they wanted a gurly gurl room.


So what color should we paint


hey Jamie need to set the TG hangout up where all can see but only registered members can post or you will see some SPAMMING :cry:

WOOFwoofWoof
Sparky

07-12-2006, 08:26 PM
OH Im so sorry...i didnt mean to leave Jamie out..yes Jamie SET IT UP actually, was not trying to take credit...was just...the idea, my participation in it anyway, came out of a convo that sparky and i had..SO SORRY, not meaning at all to take away from anyone else...now i feel bad..sorry


always,
mia

miarising
07-12-2006, 08:27 PM
the above poster taking her heels out of her mouth was me..sorry again, guys and girls...


now...back to ginger's topic!

Always,
mia

Dreamwalking
07-13-2006, 01:11 AM
Thanks Sparky, looks like I missed that when I set this up. Got it taken care of on this one and on the weight loss forum. My pleasure setting it up.

If it's a truly a gurly room...neon pink and orange. Some yellow too. that's just my suggestions.

Jamie

CathyB59
07-13-2006, 10:38 AM
Sparky!
I vote for powder blue.
My EX used to call my taste "country ducks and pastels"..
You know - More Laura Ingalls than Laura Croft.
You can take the girl out of the country....
J's tastes are more eclectic (sp) and modern, to the benefit of our house.

Ginger_Fi
07-13-2006, 09:35 PM
hhmmmm.... back to the topic lol. My original point is more along the question "Why is it so much more socially accepted for a woman to dress like a man, than vise versa?
---Is it because a woman has to do so very little to look like a man? Or is it because a man has to modify his body (Or at least he should be) to fit properly in womens clothes? Why do women get a free pass?

Dreamwalking
07-14-2006, 12:40 AM
I must admit as women we do have more of an acceptance, but at the same time I promise you when I go out in drag taking Delana to a club or anywhere like that I get looks as well. I guess in my case what I'm seeing is more the reaction of people to a well dressed man. It's a little different reaction when you go out in a tuxedo, or even just a dress shirt, hair slicked back, and nice pants.

Just an observation on my side. I do not see where such a big deal is because a lot of the things our fore fathers wore were very feminie in design and scheme.

Jamie

miarising
07-14-2006, 01:53 AM
Yes, Jamie, they were, but that was en vogue then...and actually, as the years rolled on, that look quickly become 'social' or for elected officials only...

Here's the deal..its more about what society thinks of men who dress as women...not so much the clothing as much as the allusion that there is something wrong with men who dress sa women..that they want to be women and that is a bad thing....but on the other hand, a lot of men find women who wear men's clothes sexy, particularly ball caps and oxford shirts


always
mia

Ginger_Fi
07-14-2006, 03:30 PM
---Mia not at all sure what you mean by it was en vogue then. Today men are far more effeminate than they have been in a long time. They even have a name describing these men... metrosexuals .Basic definition "male of any sexual orientation who has a strong aesthetic sense and spends a great amount of time and money on his appearance and lifestyle. "
---Some styles and behaviors that are today considered feminine were in the past part of the man's domain (wigs, stockings, makeup, jewelry, appreciation of art and music, etc). Look at the way our countries forefathers dressed.
---As the concept of femininity has conquered more territory, what is accepted masculinity has become more restricted. Perhaps metrosexuality is a reaction against this shift, as some men feel too confined within current gender roles. I believe it's a means of establishing greater equality between the sexes
---But that's besides the point. I believe that the reason that men are not allowed to express themselves in women's clothes, is that the average mother of a 7 yr old does not want their child to see a man standing at the bus stop wearing grandma clothes, and sporting a full beard.
---I recently asked the audience at a recent Wal-mart Pride council "If a man can make an attractive woman, and dress accordingly, do you have a problem with them showing up to work that way? The answer? "NO",no one had an objection if the man was a presentable woman. Appearences are everything in our society.
---The issue is when men don't try. If you are going to dress up put the effort into it. Be all you can be!!! If a man shaves his body, waxes his brows, puts on a corset, and makes an effort to have a feminine shape, learns how to do makeup, then people aren't going to be as objectionable.
---I have personally received many times more compliments on my appearence, than negative remarks. I put in the effort to look my very best, a regimin that most women would be envious of. I want the option to express myself as a guy or a girl on any given night, for any given event. But as long as the avg crossdresser walks into the store wearing a skirt and a beard, no one will ever take me seriously, and those like me.

miarising
07-14-2006, 05:41 PM
En vogue may have been the wrong term, ginger....it was socially accepted...it was actually part of what was expected for men of position. The regular farmer did not dress in the manner of powdered wigs, etc, it was a sign of position and rank of sorts...so en vogue was the wrong term...but in terms of SOCIETY and what was allowed...it was more accepted in a defined, rigid manner then (for political/official reasons)...than it is now in any way....

I agree that being metrosexual is accepted now by some and being practiced by some...but its not accepted or utilized in the terms it was with our founding fathers..so there's not the same level of acceptance..which is very unfortunate.

Ginger_Fi
07-15-2006, 01:22 PM
---if members of Wal-Mart management are not objectionable to a man wearing womens attire if he portrays an attractive feminine image, then what does social standing have to do with society's understanding of "men wearing womens clothes?"

miarising
07-15-2006, 02:50 PM
Sorry, Ginger, I guess I've confused you...i was simply initially making an observation about the example that was used relating this issue to the fact that it was acceptable with our founding fathers...Society has changed significantly since then and so has the connotation of men being feminine. That's all i was saying...

if wal mart says yes, then yay!

always
mia

Debbie
08-13-2006, 01:44 PM
im ready to fight for that right in a heartbeat,,i have asked the same question for yrs,,why is women wear mens clothes but men a rejected for wearing womens...

A BIT OF HISTORY,,skirts.blouses /girdles all came from men,,this was common wear up to the 19th century..even then male babies wore pink and gowns,earings and jewelry also deprived from men..hose deprived from men..all these things were once common dress for men,,so why now it is diffrent,,women wouldnt have the nice clothing if not for men,,,all this can be looked up on the internet,,i have researched it for self satisfation,,as for as the law goes,,it used to be against the law for men to dress as women,,youd be arrested for impersonating,,but now since women work and wear mens clothing congress says no longer is it against the law for men to wear womens clothing for dicrimination reasons,,no where in the us is it against the law UNLESS you are a wanted criminal trying to hide,,,
what i think would be a good idea if it could be done is hold a talk with CDs and Tgs in the auditorium an invite the public and we educate the so called ""reg people " on the subject,,thats where alot of misunderstanding comes in they dont understand us,,
from what i understand and i could be wrong..i will be the first single parent TG in eureka..and sisters im not going to hide it either,,i done been to the schools,banks,etc and i have been welcome everywhere with open arms and my family,,so yes it needs to change for men,so lets get it started.