Don't hijack other peoples threads...

[Ginger_Fi]

---As some of you know, I am on the Wal-Mart Home Office Pride advisory board. Basically we set up meeting times for those that don't understand, to be able to ask questions of an advisory panel.
---The purpose of the panel is to enlighten the community about GLBT world. I have found at Wal-Mart, that by far the "T" group is far less understood than the "GLB's" combined. There are a lot of misconceptions, pre-conceived notions, and a general lack of knowledge all together on the Transgendered group.
---I'd like to open the floor for questions, comments, quips or queries to all guests of this forum. I know each of you wonder about something, so let the "why’s”,” How come's" and the "is it trues" begin...
===========
---But in opening that up to you, I'd like to hear from you what you think of when you hear the term "cross dresser"... be it good, bad or ugly.

[miarising]

Thanks, Ginger....there will be a panel of sorts also at Summer DW for the GLBT community to ask TGs and some supporters who are sitting on the panel some of these same questions...along with two other TG events*still in the planning stages, more Monday*

The panel will likely be Saturday morning, once we locate a location....Members of the Central Arkansas Transsexual Support group are making a journey to ES to be a part of this panel, so please come out and support them and us....Our goal is to educate those who do not understand TG within the very community we're counted a part o f(GLBT)...

This panel is not going to be a sounding board of sorts for non friendlys to come in and lambast us...this is education for the crowd that many believe already support TG...but as GInger said, many who do not understand it...

as for the crossdresser question-Here's my answer...and this is MY definition ONLY-to be transgendered means that there is a need/feeling/circumstance that makes you believe you are to be the other gender, that for some reason you are not living as the gender you are meant to be and you are undertaking steps to do that...To me, crossdressing and to a large degree, transvestism doesn't fit that qualification because it's often more desire/sexual/play related for those who I would classify in that degree..NOW, that's not to say tvs and even cds may not be TG....it boils down to in most cases, what the intent of the 'crossdressing'..and there's so much more to it than that, really..is for the person...then you have the other cases that are more genetic, like mine..but even truly intersexed people, medically transgendered, may not choose to be seen as TG..its just some of us do!

More on the DW TG events coming!!!

always,
mia

[Ginger_Fi]

---I have a few questions on this topic.
---Define what you mean by panel? How many people will be sitting on it? Are they all transsexual's? Members of all groups of the TG community should be involved.
---Why not bring in the nay sayers? How will we ever be mainstream if we always hide behind closed doors?
---Using proper context in naming these groups, events is very important. The "Transexual Support" group is one example... if they really need support, then they really haven't made the correct choice about srs (sexual re-alignment surgery)then have they? Support is just the wrong word to use.
---Besides the above mentioned group, who else will be there?
---Based upon my work schedule, I may or may not be available to attend, but I am available for consultation on what such a panel should do.

[Ginger_Fi]

and now back to the original topic... =]

[Dreamwalking]

Hi Ginger,

I'm sure as soon as Doc sees this he will have questions. He, like myself, has always had a fascination about learning more about the TG world. I have a greater understanding of the MTF side of things. Maybe because that is what we see and hear about the most, but there is very little for the FTM side.

This is a great idea opening up the forum to questions. As of right now I don't have any questions, but I'm sure Delana will. She's not shy about asking either lol. That's my girl. She's asked me a lot about it before and I tell her what I do know and show her articles from the Advocate. For those looking for information and news, that online magazine has it all.

Jamie

[Ginger_Fi]

where can I read it at? Love to take a look.

[miarising]

Thanks for the pointing out of how much more specific I need to be, Ginger, sometimes I type fast and don't get it all out at aonce...

I misstyped..Its a Central Arkansas Transgender Support.....sorry I put transexual..

several have been invited, but what we have the majority of are intersexed and/or transsexual people....as to the far range of TG people that should be involved, I agree completely, but the level of willingness to do so by the TGs I've been in contact with has been limited.
I'd like more FtM on the panel because I have none as of yet, so if anyone can help with that, great! THe number sits at 5-6 right now.

I disagree completely, Ginger, about the fact that just because there's support in a title of a group that that somehow reflects on their decision. The fact that they choose to have srs and actually go through with it does NOT decrease their need for support, in a lot of ways, that need for support is increased dramatically by just such a decision.

As for not inviting in the naysayers, this is an opportunity to increase the support for TGs within the community they are a part of, not possibly scare off people just beginning to explore this by making them part of what many may consider an activist action. This isn't hiding behind closed doors, but you have people, myself included, who have to be who they are with some degree of seclusion. Being TG and admitting to being TG and actually even exploring TG like I am does not mean that we're all out and ready to face 'naysayers'....Getting mainstream is fine and wonderful, but in a climate where we are NOT at all mainstream, being careful is important to many...and this is not just a decision I've made, this has come from visiting with various TGs as well as supporters and people who have been involved in the planning of this.

I will be a part of this as will four members of the TG support group I mentioned....Two others are possible maybes, but I do not have anyone from the cd/tv side as of yet nor do I have a FtM representation yet..

and as far as what this panel should do, thanks for the offer of consultation Ginger, but this panels' point is simple. To ask questions of people living the lifestyle of being transgendered and whatever that means to them as well as those who support them. There is no other motive here other than to hopefully increase support of the Ts within the GLBT community. Will it work, is it the right direction, I don't know..and who knows...but its where we're going now... You are of course, as per the invite I sent you, welcome to participate.


The purpose of the DW stuff we are doing is to help those who are confused about TG within our community more informed and to also give TGs opportunities to learn as well as enjoy themselves. Yes, activism is important and has its place, but I'm also very concerned about insuring the safety, privacy, and ability of TGs...like me and others...in a place like Eureka...

always,
mia

[JanR]

Ok..going to chime in here for a minute. I have been in the advertising and marketing business for well over 20 years now. During that time, we have worked with many of the large Fortune 500 companies on many levels. As times change and perceptions change, there is always a need for these companies and the employees they support to have options, information, and a way to coordinate all of it with the package that makes the company the people, the public sees. it's all about stock prices.

Long before any formal groups within companies came into being, there have always been the unformal groups operating at some level.

We have worked with those groups for what seems like forever as well as working to integrate the GLBT into the mainstream.

While I applaud Walmart and you Ginger, there is a time for what Mia is talking about to be simple, unorganized in the name of creating a more warm, loving, accepting and safe atmosphere. Activism comes later. Way later sometimes. Fears and insecurity have to be dealt with first. Compassion and love are far more important than a precision managed panel..at least for now.

While we can get all the help we need from the big boys out there, and I am gathering their input as to make it eventually into the best,..taking the best parts from each. Since we most likely will be the ones doing the online and media part of this through websites, etc then all the material and information we are gathering now is important.

If you want Ginger, I would be happy to include what you feel is a good approach to this too. Your interest and your knowledge and what you are doing with Walmart would be a welcome addition to our already growing stacks for review.

As someone who is not TG, TS or even CD...I fall into the supporter role..but we will bring our expertise that we have gathered over the years to the table.

Like any campaign of any sort..comfort is number one. If you can't sell comfort and security..then most ad agencies would go out of business in a hurry.

So my suggestions here are what they have been to Mia. Make this a welcoming, comfortable, easy thing..in a secure loving setting.

We'll get to the razzle dazzle of it all later and start knocking socks off.

Ginger, Mel has my cell if you want to drop stuff off...or call the office. Positive Idea Marketing 253.2401

[angela]

:D The very first time I heard the word cross dresser, I just thought that it was men who liked to dress as women.

There's a lot of things I don't understand but would like to try to understand. Ginger, I think what you are doing at Walmart is a great idea, as well as your idea, Mia. I think that you need to start out small in a supporting, nurturing environment before bringing in negative people. As for being closeted, in my job, I definately have to remain in the closet or lose my job. My being in the closet at work is not because I'm ashamed of who I am, because I am not. I just can't afford to lose my job. So I guess what I'm trying to say, is I do agree with the small panel thing without the negativity. Yes, the negative people are always going to be there, and they need to learn how to be tolerant, but there is a time and place for everything.
Angela :D

[miarising]

No offense taken, ginger...but you also have to understand...THe issues that drive 'us' today..that statement assumes we are all on the exact same page with being transgendered..and as you yourself have pointed out, there are so many different levels to this..and we do not all agree on what qualifies as transgendered even within the community...that saying that the same issues drive me that drive you is inappropriate and not the case.

I am not an expert and do not claim to be...I am not even an expert in what is going on with me personally...You may be experienced in being 'out and out' , but I am not....and your comment about including crossdressers as transgendered presents a differing opinion, not just between us, but within the transgendered community....While much of the community refers to crossdressers as being transgendered, it has been my experience that this is not the case in the entire community.

You seek transgender rights that is fine. These meetings you ask us to attend, great and fantastic, seriously. But this is not an effort to seek rights or to be devisive. The contact Ive had with several tgs and supporters and even those who would be considered neutral, including people that have been dealing with this longer than both you and I, Ginger, (no offense meant)...have said this was a good idea for its purpose...that is to educate the community that we are counted a part of and to provide a TG related event for DW and explore the possibilities of organizing beyond that. This could lead to the sort of action you want, Ginger..or it could lead to an expansion of the already existing Eureka SpringsTG group that I think had their first meeting in Eureka in June ( I am on the mailing list, but did not get to attend)...but for the purposes of what we want to do here....our panel will inform and educate about what various TGs have gone through.

And yes, representing all sides of the issue is important and we are in the process of trying to get further representatives, including FtM and others that represent the other groups...

This is a comment for those reading this thread, other than Ginger-Im not speaking for her, but I hope that she has a similar view-Although it may seem we are arguing, we aren't in my opinion, we are on separate sides of an issue...but overall I believe we want positives for the Transgendered community and both of us are attempting to do that from our viewpoints..that is at least how I see it.

always,
mia

[Ginger_Fi]

---Melody and I have discussed at length the offer to me to sit on this advisory panel, and we have decided that it is not in our best interests to be involved with it. So I must regretfully decline to help. Thank you for the offer though, I am humbled to have been invited to particapate.
---I am still available to answer any questions anyone might have. Feel free to PM me as needed.

[rlynn-54]

Hi. My name is Rachel and I'm a MtF TS in transition and living fulltime. A little background to introduce myself: I began my transition in Jan 2002, went fulltime June 2004, took a forced retirement because of being TS in May 2006, and changed my name in June 2006. I moderate a local support group based in Little Rock for TG people from the central Arkansas area. The name of the group is Central Arkansas Transgendered Support - CATS for short. We are many and varied in our range within the TG community. The people who most attend meetings are MtF TS, FtM TS, Intersexed, a few CDs, and family and supporters of the trans community.

There have been a couple of statements made in this topic that I am very concerned about. I will list them below and my reply to them will follow.

---Using proper context in naming these groups, events is very important. The "Transexual Support" group is one example... if they really need support, then they really haven't made the correct choice about srs (sexual re-alignment surgery)then have they?

Excuse me, but it has been my experience that MANY TS people need support in determining if they really want or need to proceed with SRS/GRS/GCS. Coming to terms with whether one wants and even further whether one *needs* surgery is a very personal decision that only each TS person can make for themself. For any one person to *assume* they can determine what another person needs is indeed presumptuous on that person's part.

---Based upon my work schedule, I may or may not be available to attend, but I am available for consultation on what such a panel should do.

Why does anyone need help in sharing their experience, strength, and hope with others? All one must do is speak from the heart of how they alone feel and what they have been through to get where they are in life.


I'm no HR "expert". I'm no national "activist". I don't even consider myself a local activist. I'm just a transsexual woman that is trying to get to her goal one step at a time and maybe, just maybe, help someone that might come along behind me. I was asked sit on this panel at the Eureka Diversity Weekend. Personally, I think the idea is great. I wish there were better ways to get information out to the public and society as a whole. Until such time that "society" quits thinking of us gay men wanting to be with other men, perverts, deviants, and people capable of nothing but being on Jerry Springer, we as a group will NOT make legal progress. To make progress we have to show we are just women and men wanting to blend in and just be who we are.

One last thing -- the question was asked "you think of when you hear the term "cross dresser""
I think of a male that enjoys dressing as a woman, whether it be just to enjoy dressing or for sexual pleasure. A crossdresser (CD) is a male.

Thanks for the opportunity to speak.

-- Rachel S.
moderator/owner of
Central Arkansas Transgendered Support
TransgenderAA
MtF Journey

[Ginger_Fi]

---Oh please someone lock this thread before it gets ugly. That was the most blantant personal attack I've ever had on here. Since when do we let threads turn into flame wars anyway?

[Sparky]

I have a fire extinguisher :lol:

Mia is your Moderator...work it out ladies... I know you can
and I want front row seats at the fashion show

We do get a fashion show?
The Princess Dawn loves FASHION, MEN and MEN and YOUNG MEN! :roll:
and so does Sparky :oops: :wink:


don't make me call Doc for his Whips and Chains!

I have skimmed the posts, been away for a bit...looks like I need
to make an appointment to get my nails done too :wink:

I find this discussion to be very heated and very enlightening

I am a Gay Man and when this discussion rolls around to
being a Gay Man then I will chime in!


WOOFwoofWoof
Sparky

[Dawn]

Come on ladies, put your big girl panties on and let's all work together in the promotion of Diversity, no matter what the capacity.

In the big scheme of things, we're all pushing for the same goal and bickering amongst ourselves doesn't solve anything.

Gonna be sitting up front with Sparky for the fashion show! :wink: :D

[miarising]

The discussion has definitely been interesting and even though I guess Im on only one of the sides taken, all have made relevant points and all probalby have made points that aren't as relevant, i know i suffer from that at times...

but having said that....I would like to ask all of us that are here, both those involved in the discussion and any that might read it for the first time in days to come... to not stir the flames anymore...If the thread continues, let it be where it originally started, with questions and queries, like ginger's initial question about crossdressing..or whatever questions you have..but let's steer away from attacks of any sort.

This is about help and education for all of us, even those of us, like me admittedly, still learning...and thats where I'd like this thread and forum to go from here..please.
always,
mia

[angela]

:D I think a lot of people have opinions and I believe that everything is strictly that; which is ok by me-no worries. :D I have a question. Are there a lot of people who are born both genders and decide to change to one gender? And what about those people who feel they should have been the other gender ? I guess I'm just wondering about the percentages. I am not trying to offend-just curious.
Angela :D

[miarising]

This is something I've wondered too and never researched...so im off to do that ....

does anyone have figures to answer angela's questions..and I know different groups and studies will produce diff figures, so if you get your figures from a source other than your own knowledge, I know the research junkie in me would like to know where it came from...

always,
mia

[rlynn-54]

Because there has been no research funded there really are no real answers to this question -- just guesses. The guesses I've seen range from 1 in 500 being transsexual to 1 in 50,000. I believe the number may be closer to the greater occurance. I know this doesn't help much, but until valid studies are done and results are posted all we have are what we in the community know and/or guess.

I feel there is a very large number of people so deeply closeted that until the stigma associated with being transgender is removed we really won't have any idea how many there are.

[Sparky]

just had my first night of more then 4 hours of sleep in a week and have reread all of the post.

what an interesting thread.

TG, M2F, F2M and Cross Dressing has just never been a real interest for me till I read these different personalities that have posted.


You ladies have hooked me. I just hate posting in here cuz I feel like an outsider and so removed. I can not see locking this thread when I find it so fascinating and maybe I am just a moron but I just keep seeing the positive things everyone has brought to this table...speaking of table I am late for a lunch date...so keep the flames down and carry on folks


Ginger your style has always impressed me!

Mia your recent discoveries and then sharing them with us is so exciting.
your desire to cultivate a safe heaven for TG's to gather and network is
what Eureka and the board is all about. Now make it happen!

rlynn-54 welcome to the board.

WOOFwoofWoof
Sparky

[CathyB59]

Okee Dokee.

CrossDresser to me means a hetero male who dresses for perosnal reasons.
I would not to expect to see many CD's exhibit cross gender behavior or appearance at work, though it certainly would not bug me.
Connotations are neutral personally, but negative otherwise.
CD's have been the butt of cheap shots, easy gag's, and bizarre little blips in the entertainment biz, IMO.
Crossdressing is not something I would personally spend too much time exploring, on aside from drawing comparisons to TG's and offering information.
BTW, I am thankful to be participating in this discussion
:D

I am with whoever said, let's put our big girl panties on and and DEAL with it. See you gender enhanced souls later.
I remain as ever , yours - In all the important things
incontinence
insanity
instability
In debt
and in love with most of life..
:P

[CathyB59]

Oops,
Sorry I forgot this -
The number I heard was 1 in 50K have some form of gender issues.
Regarding dual gendered ppl, I think we have a person who can comment on that. From my research it seems ppl want to be one or the other, not a bit of each.
Even if physical attributes of both genders are present, all I've seen suggests people gravitate to their mental gender.
No flames plz - I know Gender is mental.
We all know everyone is a lot of 1, a little of the other. That's
<insert deity > plan. Or biology, you choose.
Let's get this train ROLLING!!
WOOOWOOOO CHUGchugCHUGchug...
Sparky, my motivated, interested, interesting person.
Fire away, any and all questions.......

[mmouse]

:oops:
Ok, here's a request that would really help some of us that are not quite so knowledgeable about the terms being tossed around willy nilly........
Would someone PLEASE make a list of the abreviations & their accurate full word explanations? I get CD; cross dresser. I assume, basically a male dressing as a female for personal reasons, usually, that they just happen to like/feel good in female clothes. All of the CD's I know well, are straight, married, have kids & some even have grandkids. But is a CD only for straight guys? Are "drag queens" just a fancy word for CD or are they different?

Some of us (I'm hoping anyway that I'm not the only ignoramous! :shock: ), don't really understand the difference between say transgender & transsexual. Could y'all help us out here, please? Maybe Sparky could then take the list & give it its own little personal, permanent spot to stay put in, for quick reference......... :?

Thank you, from one who never bothered with the "titles" but loves the people anyway.

[miarising]

mickey,
just such a list is being compiled in preparation for the panel we'll be doing at Summer DW..along with lots of other information. As soon as that list is compiled, though, I will post it here...(Im getting others to help with it, so give us time)...Now remember, the terms we're talking about are often interpreted differently by different people, so the definitions I think we are shooting for are the general definitions that qualify for most...

check back here SOON

always
mia

[mmouse]

Great! I'll be waitin' & watchin'.....! :D

[CathyB59]

mmouse,
I have the same issue with terms that don;t pertain to my particular circumstance. I WILL be posting to find out about Bois, boyz,gurlz,grrlz,degrees of butch and femme, etc..I am a total moron outside my one little corner of the universe! :oops:
I am not Dr IQ, just an intern.Here's something to chew on while MzMia builds her list.
The Drag Queens I've met are more often than not gay.
Beautiful,artistic, OFTEN strikingly beautiful. :)
Transvestite ( TV ) and CD are interchangeable. The CD's I've known have all been hetero.For example, a CD would not care to feminize his everyday appearance noticably since he lives an otherwise normal male life. The most harmless activity in the world.
CD's and TV's are less practiced and developed towards a femme appearance. Still you will be amazed how good these ladies look.

Transgender (TG) is a generic term encompassing a wide spectrum of gender variant behavior with varying degrees of severity.

Transsexual (TS) is a more specific term.
In food terms, a TG is ice cream. Lots of flavors, but all ice cream.
A TS is like chocolate ice cream. It's still ice cream, but a specific flavor, with a specific recipe.
mmouse, if you have any Q's just fire away. I am happy to be in Mia's forum posting merrily away.

[angela]

:? :) When asking about percentages, I guess I just didn't ask my question right. Thanks for all the information. When I think of more, I will ask.
Angela and Lisa

[DrLewall]

I remember along time ago, well, maybe not so long ago, that when I wore womens underpants on my head, I knew then that it did not make me a CD...even tho a CD and I have alot in common, it's called a "Fetish"..and I have lots of them! Who doesnt?! :mrgreen:

[mmouse]

Thanks, Cathy! Now, if everyone will use food terms, I/we just might start getting it!! :D That was sooo perfect.
And Doc? tsk tsk tsk 8) :roll: (hope they were at least clean undies....) :shock: :lol:

Cathy, whenever you manage to hit town, be sure to stop in my shop; I have a picture of one of our local Red Hat clubs on my wall & the most beautiful woman there is a straight CD!!! :shock: :lol:
(& the only honorary male member in the country!)

[CathyB59]

mmouse,
Thanks for the invitation!
It is very exciting to be attending my 1st DW.
I need to find which shop is yours. Bravo on a str8 CD being a red hat lady. That's pretty impressive.
Hope to meet many nice people. :D

[Sparky]

mouse is right across from the AUD!

[mmouse]

Well I am for right now........this is what I posted on GF a few hours ago:
************************************************** *******

Trees came down in front of the B&B behind the Aud & snapped the power pole completely off. More trees came down on the hillside behind the Court House & are covering, but maybe not smashing the cars parked there from Judge Roy. Tree came down behind my tee shop & broke 3 gas mains that hook up to the houses behind me. Yes, there's gas in my storeroom & I am at HOME now!!! [Eek!]

The 2 dumb dames sign got ripped off & landed in the street as well as the big window & frame of the large window above the door of the Aud where it joined the dames sign. The little showcase window to the left of the stairs at the Aud door is smashed.

Trees & power lines down at the water-tower at the high school corner; I had to go down to the train depot & up the back way to get to Emporia, since both the top of Benton & the school corner were closed off from the lines.

A huge tree came down in front of the park (Basin) & is sideways crossing lower Spring St, but couldn't see any more than that much. Going down N. Main, some small branches are scattered about but that's it, all the way up to Emporia.

I was standing outside watching the rain when all this hit, & I've got to tell you, I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE WINDS ACT LIKE THIS DOWNTOWN!!!!!!!!!!! I was literally almost blown off my feet with the first hard blow! And it looks like it started up here on the top of the hill & then gained violence & strength as it traveled down S. Main, where it took the left vee & started up Spring St.!!!!!

Unf*ckingbelieveable!!!!!! I NEVER want to have another 2 minutes like that again!!!!!!! [Eek!] [Eek!]
************************************************** **

According to other reports, it was a very contained, selective storm; lower S.Main & lower Spring St. but it was SCARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Power was off at my house until 7PM, & apparently, the storm started up here just past Caribe & headed for town growing as it did. Planer Hill was the most open route, whereas Benton, the little side road shortcut, that usually gets all the action only had one tree down at the top. I never knew winds could/would pick the path of least resistence, but boy oh boy, that's what this one did!!!

[angela]

:shock: Oh, my!! Was anyone hurt? I've never heard of such a bad storm in downtown Eureka either. I've always been told it goes around usually.
Angela and Lisa :D

[mmouse]

:shock:
Here's the link for seeing some really great pictures of it. The second photo is the one from across from my shop....

http://www.bridgingthegapbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/41/3909.html

(I just now learned how to make a link......look out y'all!!!) 8) :lol:

[mmouse]

No one was hurt!!! Which in itself is amazing!!! I started a new thread on the chitchat part for everyone to keep up to date.

[froggie]

Why would you say that cross dressers are only male. I dont agree. Women can dress like men as well. if they are not cross dressers then what does that make them? Sorry but i am not so good with these terms and am still trying to figure a lot of the TG stuff out.

Delana

[CathyB59]

What a bizarre occurrence -
It is fortunate noone was seriously hurt - Aside from being scared witless

[miarising]

Delana,
You're exactly right....CD..actually all the terms apply to men AND women.....I think part of it is though that we are trained to look at this as something that happens with men 'wanting to be' women....when in actuality it occurs in both genders. It's also more alarming I think to society in general for a man to want to look, act, like, etc like a woman than for the reverse to happen. But you are a hundred percent correct...Transgendered includes several terms that apply to both genders....

always
mia

[CathyB59]

Froggy,
You are abso correct - A woman can dresss as a male.

As someone else ( Ginger I think ) aptly observed - females in male garb don;t attract much attention. There's litlle if any stigma associated with a female dressing male.
The % of women who crossdress for similar reason as male CD's is very small though - I'd love to have a discussion with a group of female cross dressers to understand better.
Point taken, Froggy! :D
Later Gator

[angela]

:D Very good point, Delana.
Angela and Lisa :D

[froggie]

I knew i had seen it posted on here by someone before that CD are only male and i didnt figure that could be correct. Jamie dresses as a man a lot...i dont know that she is considered a cross dresser...99.99% of the time she is in mens clothes. I am hopeing that she will soon do a drag show but we still have some work to do on her before that can happen.

lol she needs a hair cut but is afraid to cut it b/c i told her when she cuts hers off that mine goes too and it will be spiked again!!! lol she likes my long hair. i pretty much had to promise her that i would onlyl trim the dead ends off so she would agree to get her cut. we still have not went though. i hope we will get the chance before DW.

Delana